Sunday, June 1. 2008
THIS IS THE STUDY SESSION THREAD. Rules, extra credit guidelines, and more after the jump!
Thanks to everyone who participated. I hope it was useful! Back to grading essays...
Rules: This is not the time to simply ask for answers to questions on your study sheets. That opportunity passed once the clock struck four on Friday. Ask instead for clarifications.
Bad Question: "Who is Ampleforth, and why is he important?" (Don't ask that type of lazy question; I expect you to have read the book well enough to identify the characters. If you do have this sort of question, go to one of the free text editions of 1984 online, hit Ctrl+F, and search "Ampleforth.")
Appropriate Question: "OK, I understand that Ampleforth's a poet who works for the Ministry of Truth, and I know that Winston sees him in the cafeteria and in prison. I don't understand why Feraco thinks he's important - he's in jail for leaving "God" in a poem, but why does that matter?"
Appropriate Response: "Well, Ampleforth matters because his crime matters. First of all, Orwell was a language nut - just look at Newspeak! Secondly, look at the word he left in - being imprisoned for leaving "God" in a poem is a symbol for the destruction of the human spirit. If you think about it, the entire purpose of the Ministry of Love - especially Room 101 - is to defeat the soul."
I will assign extra credit for the best answer, not the first answer - so please answer carefully and well. You will not receive extra credit for posing a question and answering it yourself; this is intended to be most useful for students wishing to cement their understanding of the book before the exam.
Good luck! I'll be watching.
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I understand atomic bombs uses take places in 1950 but I don't understand why that paves the way for the creation of the book's three major powers?
nuclear war occurs between these major powers, that's why.
Look at that - you know what they say about great minds...
Since no one seems to be rising to the occasion, I'll jump in and answer your question.
The atomic wars of the 1950s left most of the world in tatters, and the populations of the surviving countries were angry about the insanely destructive path their leaders (the "high class" in Goldstein's book, or the capitalists) had devised. Promising a better way, the middle classes in the regions which would one day become Oceania, Eastasia, and Eurasia led revolutions and took power. Once in power, the middle class didn't simply repeat the mistakes of their predecessors - they took the old leaders' expansionist aims much further, consolidating their power as they gained more land and enslaved more people.
Without the atomic wars, there would have been no cause for revolution. The revolutions led to the eventual creation of the three major powers, but the wars had to happen first.
If my memory serves my correctly, the revolution was called the Great Purge? I think that's what is called.
I suppose that the aftermath of the nuclear warfare led to the creation of the Party. Moreover, the three superpowers. However, to that extent, since doublethink is engaged strongest in the Inner Party. The existence of the three major powers may not be as real as the proles and the outer party perceived. It paves the way because the society was ran by capitalists. And in a way that the history from Oceania shows that Capitalists are the downfall of the last chaos. Therefore, it gave the party the opportunity to seize power.
The three major powers are Eastasia, Oceania, and Eurasia. In case if you forget.
How does George Orwell questions the nature of authority and the nature of reality in "1984"?
There is a lot of talk about Winston"writing" in his diary about his emotions. Does he just unconsciously write? How is he able to write?
Winston writes ideas in his diary, yes. His thoughts in the diary are without a doubt Thoughtcrimes. As he recalls it, "thoughtcrime does not entile death, thoughtcrime is DEATH.
How does George Orwell make Julia such a significant and memorable character in 1984?
She plays a prominent role in the novel in that it made Winston want to live again. At the end both were defeated by their worst fears and she explains to winston what happens to people when they're threatened. This gives the novel a fitting conclusion to go along with the ending.
Very good. See the Character section of the Study Stash for more.
I think, in addition, Julia is also a contradiction in the novel. For one fact, we know that she works for the anti-sec league. And for the other, she expresses her desire by having affairs within her life. Both sides are depicted to the readers. However, the mindless people in the book does not, except Winston.
I most certainly agree with you, Randy. The role that Julia played definitely gave us a closer look at Winston and part of the Outer Party. Why? Besides Winston, she is also a member of the Outer Party. The reason Orwell puts her closely to Winston is that he wants to use her to make Winston gradually develop. She was one of the reason that made Winston wants to live again. In the same time, her betrayal confirms Winston's final words, "He loved Big Brother." In such an oppressive society, one cannot simply escape the wrath of his worst fears.
I know the part "I sold you and you sold me" represents Winston and Julia - how they betrayed each other. But what is the significance of the line "there they lie and here lie we"? Is it talking about the Party?
I believe that it is talking about the party. "There they lie and here lie we," refering to the different view that the people have in the book. It reflects the different sides of the spectrum.
First of all, you have to keep in mind that this is something that is created by the Party. With that in mind, we can conclude that this is not the original version of the song but a fabrication . After extensive research, I have found out that these lines are taking from Glen Miller's "Chestnut Tree." At any rate, the possible meaning of "There they lie and here lie we" is that "they" foreshadows Julia betraying Winston while Winston betrays Julia under our eyes. Remember the lyrics were first appeared along with Arraronson, Jones, and Rutherford? And now, it is happening exactly to Winston and Julia, a place where they have sold each other. These lines both serve as foreshadowing and irony of the book.
The "lie" line is multifaceted. For one thing, it sustains Orwell's death imagery - the shattered coral, the rats eager to chew on bodies, the drowning family in the ship saloon - because it's meant to hammer home that Winston and Julia are "the dead" - still walking, but soulless. They may as well be lying underground "under the spreading chestnut tree."
Also, the "lies" they refer to are the lies they told one another - "I'll never betray you." The Party may lie constantly ("there lie they"), but they did the same to one another ("and here lie we").
Finally, the "spreading chestnut tree" represents the seemingly infinite reach of the Party.
Why does Julia resfuse to seperate and never see Winston again when O'Brien asked what they are willing to do for the Brotherhood, but betrayed Winston so easily when she was in the Ministry of Love? Is it because of the physical pain that they experienced in the Ministry of Love?
Remember, at the time when Julia refuses to separate and never see Winston again, she was not experiencing any pain, danger, nor torture. However, after their capture, you have to keep in mind that she is not only a female but also has to experience under extreme fear and torture. From that degree, you have to accept her surrender as a necessary act to survive. Again, you do not have evidence that she betrayed Winston so easily when she was in the Ministry of Love!!!!
Thank you Kelvin, it is the word "immediately" that made me wonder. However, I still believe that by "imediately," O'brien means the effortlessness of his conversion. And by giving in to betrayal, like daphne said, Julia is presenting her selfishness about her current status and that she does not care enough about the long term effect (attempt to rebel) like Winston does.
Again, even if O'Brien mentions her effortless surrender, can you really believe what O'Brien is saying. O'Brien's main purpose to is convert Winston and Julia at all speed. Whether or not how long, it is impossible to figure out. The author only revealed how long Winston's stay in the Miniluv, and only that perception is real. Others, especially those from O'Brien are unreliable.
When O'Brien asks Winton about his willingness to separate from Julia, Julia brakes in and says "No" because she is content to live in the moment and only cares what's happening in the moment. At that time, she needs Winston to fulfill her sexual desires so she doesn't want to separate from him. Julia betrays Winston immediately after she is0 captured because she wants to save herself, again, this shows how she only cares about how to save herself. On page 292, she tells Winston "All you care about is yourself." This explains why Julia chooses to betrays Winston.
The statement, "Julia betrays Winston immediately after she is captured" has no evidence. I do not see this in the book.
People have their own greatest fear. For Winston it is the rat that he fears. Without any external forces, people believe that they care about others no matter what happens. However, when they confront their own greatest fear the basic human nature emerges... "All you care about is yourself" (292).
I don't really understand the goal of the Ingsoc, only as they are the govt and is in control of Oceania.
First of all, Ingsoc means English Socialism. The goal of Ingsoc is to make the society better. Capitalism was replaced by this. Since the Party controls the present, they control the past. Therefore, it gives the Party the power to say whatever negatives about the previous regimes and at the same time advocate their goodness.
The stated goal of Ingsoc is to protect the people of Oceania by any means necessary; they say that they do this in the name of Socialism.
In actuality, English Socialism destroys every tenant of Socialism. The Party's goal is to gain power, and they do this merely for the sake of...gaining power. They also pledge to destroy all enemies, and while they seek tirelessly to do this, they recognize it's impossible to do. So its goals are tied up in a never-ending quest for power.
In another word, its purpose is to maintain the status quo.
i have a question.
what is the difference between inner party and outer party??
The inner party is the group that consists of the top level officials who are really in control of the Party. These people such as O'Brien work in the Ministry of Love. Outer Party consists of members who are usually like the middle class that work for the Party such as Winston in the Ministry of Truth. Also, the Inner Party engages in the strongest doublethink.
Think of this as an oligarchical type of deal, the Inner Party has everything and therefore is the ruling class. The Outer Party and the Proles are the working class. However, the Outer Party engages in a intellectual sense, and therefore the Inner Party pays close attention to their actions, whereas the proles engage in extreme labor, and therefore does not need to be watched.
Also, you can think of it as a big corporate company. The Inner Party is the big CEOs and bosses, the Outer Party is the secretaries, filers, and other assistant jobs, and the Proles are the janitors.
hell of a time to ask but when is our test?i have a feeling it's tomorrow
Kelvin - Would you prefer to have it closer to your essay due date, closer to the rest of your finals, or tomorrow?
I just want to take the test with everyone else. Any date is reasonable for a teacher to put the test on because he/she runs the class. Oligarchy, not Democracy.
Heh - SFHP is so far from an oligarchy...I simply made a decision long ago that I thought you would eventually have reached on your own once you saw each of the factors facing you. I actually wanted to have the test sooner, but the presentations prevented that - and rather than boot everyone to the next week, I decided to give everyone an extra three days to study.
You would be correct - that's what the study sheet on Friday was for (to help you review the questions the unit's covered).
aite 4sho.just making sure i wasn't trippin out and thinking it was on like wednesday.
Nope - exam Monday, essay Wednesday, creative project for finals.
Where does Winston put the old records once he is finished?
Who has “vanished”? What’s the prevailing reaction to the disappearance?
when they vanish, means their memory is erased.
so they start all over.
Syme vanished. The reaction was expected especially from Winston because he realized that Syme's thoughts about Newspeak was going to allow him to be caught one day.
Syme has vanished. As predicated by Winston, his intelligence led to his downfall. The Party does not anyone from the Outer Party to have such intelligence because it may be their downfall.
Syme has vanished. Once he is vanished, no one ever mentions his name. The memory of his existence is erased.
how is brotherhoods teaching spread, and why are they hard to find?
The brotherhood is based on the legendary leader Goldstein. It is hard to find because supposedly it is a way from Party officials to catch people like Winston.
The Brotherhood is simply a fabrication. Its existence is unreal, simply enough, its purpose is to keep the status quo in check. If you want more, find out who really wrote "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism."
Syme, and careless people remarked his absence without any idea of what happened to him.
what "rare" commodity do people keep asking Winston for?
I can't recall the answer...
How does one's memory is removed when it can come back when you least thought about it?
Your question is too vague, and what specifically are you asking?
I think what you are trying to say is the example with Winston remembering his family members such as his mom. This occurs because it is based on human nature and the inherent nature of memory. Winston also dreams of the Golden Country a lot with his mom and Julia. These memories are a key part of the novel.
Sorry for being so vague. But when I meant about the memories of Winston, it's exactly what I meant of the thought of his mom then "erasing" her from his mind.
Why was the Declaration of Independence in the Appendix of the novel? What purpose did it have?
I believe this is an irrelevant question because it deals with the Appendix.
But to answer this question I think its like the Chestnut Tree Song changed and shaped to the way the party liked.
I totally do not think it is an irrelevant question because it must have something to do with 1984 and especially Newspeak.
Nothing in the Appendix or Afterword will appear on tomorrow's test; those sections are the subject of this week's work, and thus form the basis of the end-of-unit activities.
It is just an example of showing that in order to translate the oldspeak into newspeak, the original meaning must be altered. Both the language and the meaning have to be changed to achieve ideological translation.
Ah ha, I can always count on people from my group. No wonder we win every competition that Mr. Feraco laid out for us. Thank you Michael.
What is the significance of the “Golden Country”? Why is it important to Winston?
Golden Country represents freedom and liberty. It is a place where Winston will never reach or live in. It constantly occurs in Winston's dreams. It is important because it is opposite to the dystopia he is living in.
The "Golden Country" serves as the Old European landscape. It's also the one place that refers to his dream place in his mind. The significant part about the "Golden Country" is a place where Winston can't be hurt and the place where he and Julia first met. He doesn't have to have a care in the world but the girl next to him.
Golden Country represents Winton's fantasy of the liberation of his sexual desires.
People ask Winston for razor blades
does the razor blade symbolize anything?
Just a basic human commodity. The Party claims that it's providing everything its citizens need - an abundance of them, actually. The reality is far different.
Mr. Feraco, if i have to ask you something over email
do I send it to email@example.com ?
or do u have another email account that you can read at home ?
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